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Tema: Revisando la saga de Superman

  1. #2851
    maestro
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Branagh/Doyle Ver mensaje
    Relee por favor lo que me acabas de quotear; la estoy alabando. Cuando digo "malrollera" estoy describiendo el tono de la composición en esas escenas.

    No se de donde has podido sacar que mi párrafo es una critica....
    Noooo, ni mucho menos. Simplemente he presentido que no es una de tus favoritas, pese a que es un gran Williams. Y he aprovechado para ponerla en el altar en donde la tengo puesta desde hace mucho años, jugando un poco, eso sí, al principio con un poco de sentido de culpabilidad...ya que Superman no está considerada entre las más top del maestro, pese al tema icónico

    Disculpas por la confusión.
    Jane Olsen y Branagh/Doyle han agradecido esto.

  2. #2852
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Versta2 Ver mensaje
    Noooo, ni mucho menos. Simplemente he presentido que no es una de tus favoritas, pese a que es un gran Williams. Y he aprovechado para ponerla en el altar en donde la tengo puesta desde hace mucho años, jugando un poco, eso sí, al principio con un poco de sentido de culpabilidad...ya que Superman no está considerada entre las más top del maestro, pese al tema icónico

    Disculpas por la confusión.

    Bueno, yo no soy referencia de nada, ¿eh?. Fíjate que aunque suelo suscribir que el techo absoluto de Williams está en Empire- Raiders-ET, la que suelo poner inmediatamente después de esas es Hook, lo que me granjea no pocas miradas de desaprobación y sorpresa. Yo tampoco puedo evitarlo, me parece cumbre absoluta de su carrera. ¿Te puedo pedir que te pases por el hilo de SW página 147 y comentes el corte musical del imperio contraataca que he puesto?. Siento curiosidad por saber que te parece ese fragmento concreto, te dejo enlace directo:

    https://www.mundodvd.com/star-wars-1...6/#post4216402
    Jane Olsen ha agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  3. #2853
    Music of the Night Avatar de Jane Olsen
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Branagh/Doyle Ver mensaje
    Me autocito para que lo vea Versta2.
    Qué bien le salen los solos de trompa a este hombre ...
    Branagh/Doyle ha agradecido esto.
    "There is an inmense joy when you suddenly discover beauty in something that has been around you for ages".

    "Waving the flag with one hand and picking pockets with the other: that's your patriotism. Well, you can have it." Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious.


    "Listen to them... Children of the night! What music they make..!"

  4. #2854
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Jane Olsen Ver mensaje
    Qué bien le salen los solos de trompa a este hombre ...
    Cierto. Consigue que te transmitan un amalgama de cosas... en Drácula angustia, en SW sentido de la majestuosidad, en Salvar al Soldado Ryan o Lincoln solemnidad y en Superman estoicismo.
    Jane Olsen ha agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  5. #2855
    Music of the Night Avatar de Jane Olsen
    Fecha de ingreso
    26 sep, 12
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Branagh/Doyle Ver mensaje
    Cierto. Consigue que te transmitan un amalgama de cosas... en Drácula angustia, en SW sentido de la majestuosidad, en Salvar al Soldado Ryan o Lincoln solemnidad y en Superman estoicismo.
    Me vas a perdonar por repetirme. Melancolía e introspección, podríamos añadir:



    Y perdón por el off-topic, pero, volviendo a Drácula ¿soy la única que ve ciertas similitudes?



    Última edición por Jane Olsen; 01/06/2018 a las 21:29
    Versta2 y Branagh/Doyle han agradecido esto.
    "There is an inmense joy when you suddenly discover beauty in something that has been around you for ages".

    "Waving the flag with one hand and picking pockets with the other: that's your patriotism. Well, you can have it." Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious.


    "Listen to them... Children of the night! What music they make..!"

  6. #2856
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Mira Versta2:

    Superman: The Movie (1978) is a score that needs little introduction – it is one of John Williams' glorious "blockbuster" works from the late 1970s in which he nearly singlehandedly revived the symphonic film score. Rousing, tuneful and unforgettable, it is a lynchpin of any soundtrack collection. The film features a kind of tripartite structure, moving from Superman's origin on planet Krypton (given austere, almost Shakespearean colors) to his teenage years in Smallville (scored with beautiful Coplandesque melodies) and his debut in bustling Metropolis, where the film's action, romance and comedy come to the fore in some of Williams' greatest scoring ever. Like the film itself, Williams' music is a perfect combination of heart, humor, myth and drama


    The music to Superman: The Movie has been released on several occasions, most recently on a 2-CD set from Rhino (now out of print). That album, however, was reconstructed using secondary dubbing elements, as the six-track 35mm music masters were unearthed only afterwards. For this definitive presentation, the entire recording has been painstakingly remixed and remastered from that first-generation source, yielding the best sound quality ever. Discs 1 and 2 of this set present Williams' complete recordings to Superman: The Movie (additional alternates and source music are on disc 8) – including alternate versions never before heard, such as a powerful early version of the Kryptonian villains' banishment to the Phantom Zone.


    A ver si sacan sueltos los discos 1 y 2. Recientemente acaban de lanzar (La-La-Land) y también está en Spotify y demás sitios), la partitura completa y restaurada de Superman IV que son los mismos dos discos que se incluían en la cajota de 2008 de FSM junto con el resto de partituras de la saga. A ver si editan sueltas el resto, y ya por soñar, quizá aún mejores masters están disponibles para la primera entrega de Williams y pueden hacer una nueva restauración aprovechando que estamos en 2018 (cuarenta aniversario).


    Creo, sinceramente, que cómo pasa con SW, respecto a Superman todavía no hemos visto la edición definitiva en lo que a calidad de sonido respecta.
    Versta2 y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  7. #2857
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman



    Compra recomendadisima.

    El score completo de Alexander Courage (quién tenía 67 años en 1987) para la versión original de Superman IV de 124 minutos de duración (que requirió componer casi 1h y 50 minutos de música), es una revelación, en contra de lo que pensábamos todos estos años, escuchando la versión recortada y mal mezclada de la película, que hacía parecer que se había grabado con una orquesta amateur (de hecho, fue lo mismo que pasó con Superman II, que en la película suena fatal, y el lanzamiento completo de 2008 es cómo descubrirla por primera vez ).

    Diría que es la mejor partitura de todas después del original de Williams, aunque Ken Thorne hizo un inteligente y a menudo no valorado trabajo de adaptación en Superman II, donde tuvo a su disposición todo el material compuesto por Williams, incluyendo temas no usados en la película y versiones alternativas. Superman III es aún mejor, contiene material original de Thorne en su mayor parte, deliciosa escritura contrapuntistica y animada, combinada con las citas pertinentes de los temas de Williams cuando corresponde.

    Superman IV es obra de Alexander Courage, orquestador y amigo intimo de Williams y Goldsmith durante un montón de años (de hecho se fue a trabajar con Jerry en Lionheart -creo- nada más terminar su labor en Superman IV), quién desgraciadamente terminó sus días en una residencia víctima de demencia senil. Cuando falleció, John Williams le dedicó unas palabras en un acto conmemorativo. Jerry Goldsmith mantuvo con el una larga conversación telefónica de casi 1h en uno de sus últimos periodos de lucidez.

    Los temas que Williams escribió para la película (durante descansos de su trabajo en Las Brujas de Eastwick) se complementan con toneladas de material nuevo de Courage y las citas a los temas clásicos de la primera entrega. El resultado, siendo Courage el experimentado orquestador y no menos buen compositor que era, es una verdadera joya, no descubierta y menospreciada por culpa de la película y la ausencia de edición de la banda sonora durante más de veinte años.

    Courage supervisó la mezcla de sonido y preparó un álbum para su lanzamiento -el cual nunca se produjo a causa del fracaso de la película-, marchándose inmediatamente después a trabajar con Jerry.

    Por tanto, el brutal recorte de la película a 90 minutos y el destrozó de su partitura fue algo que el pobre hombre no tuvo que ver.

    Cómo os decía en otro post, La-La-Land Records acaba de lanzar la partitura completa en 2 discos. Si no os comprasteis la mega cajota (bastante cara, todo sea dicho), con todas las partituras de la saga completas y restauradas, adquirir esto sin duda. Según Mike Mattesino, el audio está levemente mejorado con respecto al lanzamiento original, y se espera que a lo largo de este 2018 vean la luz el resto de partituras de la saga de manera completa, con el sonido mejorado donde sea necesario (la original de Williams aún tiene margen de mejora).

    Al mismo tiempo, aclara: Si ya tienes la mega caja azul de 2008, no te vuelvas a comprar estos dos CD por la mejora de sonido en este caso es muy muy leve y el contenido es exactamente el mismo.

    Superman IV también la teneis en Spotify, Apple Music y demás servicios digitales de compra/streaming.



    DISC 1

    1 Fanfare / Space Saver 1:51
    2 Main Title / Back in Time 5:43
    3 Pow! / Good Morning 2:48
    4 Smoke the Yokes / Nefarious 1:06
    5 To Work / Train Stopper 2:09
    6 Someone Like You (Lacy’s Theme) 3:21
    7 Jeremy’s Theme 2:18
    8 For Real / The Class 1:47
    9 Hair Raisers 1:01
    10 Lacy / The Visit 2:30
    11 First Nuclear Man 5:26
    12 Nuke 1 Fight / Ashes 3:47
    13 Headline 2:51
    14 Fresh Air 4:35
    15 United Nations / Net Man 4:45
    16 Sunstroke / Enter Nuclear Man 2 5:27
    17 Flight to Earth / Introducing Nuclear Man 2 3:27
    18 Lacy (disco version) 2:15
    19 Lacy’s Place 5:25
    20 Ear Ache / Confrontation / Tornado 8:11
    21 Volcano 2:21
    22 Statue of Liberty Fight 3:46
    Disc 1 - Total Time: 76:50

    DISC 2
    1 Nuclear Man Theme 2:50
    2 Down With Flu 3:15
    3 Two-Faced Lex / Missile Buildup 1:41
    4 Persuader / Awakened 3:16
    5 Abducted / Mutual Distrust 4:47
    6 Metropolis Fight / Lift to the Moon 3:38
    7 Moon Fight / Goodbye Nuke 5:08
    8 Come Uppance / Lifted / Quarried / Flying With Jeremy / End Credits 9:39

    Total Score Time: 1:51:00


    Qué música más buena tuvieron las cuatro películas de la saga, demonios.

    Última edición por Branagh/Doyle; 03/06/2018 a las 02:02
    Jau79, Zander, Charles Lee Ra y 2 usuarios han agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  8. #2858
    Video Home System User Avatar de Charles Lee Ra
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Acojonante lo del soundtrack de Superman IV

    He de decir que Superman IV fue la primera peli de Superman que vi en cines, eso sí, "por todo lo alto", y que estuve enamoradísimo de ella toda mi infancia, hasta que empezó a abrirse camino la madurez, y con ella, la cruda realidad: que la película no había por donde cogerla

    Aún así, y por el cariño que la tengo, me haré con esa BSO. Será... ¡el segundo! CD de bandas sonoras que tengo, ya que suelo comprarlas en vinilo. Pero creo que el trabajo que se han currado lo merece.

    Es curioso lo de Superman. Primero nos "perdimos" el Superman II de Donner, y luego el Superman IV que pudo ser...
    Jane Olsen ha agradecido esto.

  9. #2859
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Charles Lee Ra Ver mensaje
    Acojonante lo del soundtrack de Superman IV

    He de decir que Superman IV fue la primera peli de Superman que vi en cines, eso sí, "por todo lo alto", y que estuve enamoradísimo de ella toda mi infancia, hasta que empezó a abrirse camino la madurez, y con ella, la cruda realidad: que la película no había por donde cogerla

    Aún así, y por el cariño que la tengo, me haré con esa BSO. Será... ¡el segundo! CD de bandas sonoras que tengo, ya que suelo comprarlas en vinilo. Pero creo que el trabajo que se han currado lo merece.

    Es curioso lo de Superman. Primero nos "perdimos" el Superman II de Donner, y luego el Superman IV que pudo ser...
    Y ahora tenemos la BSO para la película que pudo haber sido... es espectacular, los apenas 90 minutos de la película mutilan y recortan de manera grave este trabajo, el mejor, nada menos, desde el original de Williams. Por cierto, ¿alguien puede iluminarme?. En qué momento de la producción se decide recortar de 124 minutos a menos de 90?. ¿Y que demnios pasó con el presupuesto?. La mayoría del dinero se esfumó en vaya usted a saber qué. A la película no se destinó , desde luego.
    Charles Lee Ra y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  10. #2860
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    De una entrevista al ingeniero de sonido/restaurador Mike Mattesino, con motivo de este lanzamiento (bueno,, el lanzamiento original, en la cajota de 2008) . Contiene un montón de información interesante.





    Released in 1987, Superman IV: The Quest for Peace was the a victim of severe, last minute editing, reducing what was initially a 2+ hour film to just 89 minutes for its U.S. theatrical release. As a consequence of this tampering, Superman IV was also the only Christopher Reeve Superman film not to have a soundtrack album released. This was frustrating for music fans, as John Williams clearly had written new material for the film and Alexander Courage’s contributions were probably the best thing to come out of the movie. After two decades, all of that has been righted by the 2CD release of this full score as part of Film Score Monthly’s Superman: The Music (1978-1988) eight disc box set. For this final interview conducted with Mike Matessino, co-producer of the release, we have a lengthy discussion about the music ofSuperman IV: The Quest for Peace and the career of composer Alexander Courage.

    Neil S. Bulk: Mike, we’ve had two full discussions now about the Superman scores, and yet Superman IV may be the most fascinating of all to discuss. Let’s start right from the beginning of this project, when it was possible that it wasn’t going to be in this set. Why was that?


    Mike Matessino: Because the movie was produced by Cannon and they owned the music, and their library was originally acquired by Sony. Warner Bros., as the distributor of the film and owner of the Superman property eventually acquired Superman IV back, but a few things needed to be ironed out with that before FSM was cleared to license the music.

    NSB: Once that was cleared up, and I imagine that was pretty early on in the process, things could proceed with this score. You had a cue sheet that gave you an idea of additional music, so that was evidence that Alexander Courage had scored a long version, but were you aware that the tapes still existed? Was this ever a concern?


    MM: We had absolutely no idea what existed at first. All of the elements were in limbo, many physically with Sony. No one had ever touched them or done any work with the film other than a straight transfer for DVD of the U.S. version of the film. The last thing I expected was the original multi-track tapes; we didn’t have them on any of the other three films so it was surprise to suddenly have them on this one.

    NSB: And those were the first generation tapes, recorded in Germany and England?

    MM: Right. These were the actual 24-track scoring masters on 2” tape with every recorded take. I was a little bit intimidated by working with them at first, especially after just having selected takes already mixed down on the previous scores. I never dreamed that this would end up being the biggest job of the bunch.

    NSB: The biggest job for the shortest film. That makes a lot of sense. Can you explain the differences between having every recorded take and the selected takes?

    MM: It means you have a lot more material to listen to, which means a lot of data to manage. Creatively it means you have the extra step of figuring out the accurate performance of each cue. Paperwork is sometimes helpful with this, because selected takes are often circled, but quite often I have to check cues against the film to determine exactly where edits were done, and so on. As Superman IV progressed, however, I took a bit more liberal approach since much of the music hadn’t been heard and the performance was shaky, mainly because the budget allowed for very few takes per cue, but having them all gave me the opportunity to create the best musical performances possible.

    NSB: And you did this by not only combining takes, but also replacing individual instruments at times, right?

    MM: Definitely. That’s one of the advantages of having the multi-track. If there’s a noise or a bum note you can take care of it right at the source without having to touch the tracks not affected by it. I fixed a lot of clams in one take by finding the same note played correctly in another, which is something they weren’t doing until all music editing started going digital. The disadvantage of multi-track is when you’re remixing something that has already been released because it’s very easy for it to go astray and end up sounding different form what listeners are used to and what the original artists intended. With Superman IV, however, the movie didn’t sound very good and there had never been a soundtrack release, so in a sense this freed me up in how I could approach it, which was basically to make it the best musical presentation possible.

    NSB: That was my next question! Was there any sort of reference for mixing? Did you get any feedback from the original engineers? And didn’t you have an album to refer to, the original unreleased album master? That wasn’t a good reference?

    MM: That was a very important component because it was the first music from the score I ever heard, the first anyone had heard in 19 years, and it was very illuminating to discover that an album had been planned and prepared but then aborted. The master for it certainly sounded better than the movie, but when I finally got to work with the multi-track it became obvious that the album was lackluster. Doug Schwartz, FSM’s mastering engineer, made CDRs of that album master and he was hoping we wouldn’t come back with a full score in that quality; he thought it had a very unappealing sound. The big revelation was, of course, the album versions of the three new themes, which we should discuss, but sonically that master was just a jumping-off point and nothing more. The English sessions were done at CTS, which was John Richards’s facility, same as for Superman II and III, and even though Dick Lewzey was the actual engineer, John very kindly gave me some guidance to mixing multi-track for that room at Wembley. But what I really did was study the Williams soundtracks that had been recorded by Armin Steiner, because that’s who was doing his scores at the time. So I used Spacecamp, The Witches of Eastwick and Empire of the Sun as models because I wanted it to sound like a John Williams score from the period. By coincidence, Ron Jones, who composed the animated series music heard on disc 7 of the set, uses Armin for his Family Guy scores, and I was able to attend sessions at Fox to watch him work.

    NSB: The Superman IV album master confirmed, even beyond the cue sheet, that music had been recorded for a longer version of the movie. It was filled with music from cut scenes such as the still unseen Metro Club sequence, the tornado scene that wound up in the international and television versions of the movie and a cue only known as “Mutual Distrust,” for which there was no footage to reference. But the real surprise was the concert suites you mentioned. For years anyone who cared about this movie was under the impression that John Williams wrote two new themes for this movie, Lacy’s Theme and Nuclear Man’s Theme. You quickly realized that wasn’t the case, didn’t you?

    MM: Track 2 on that aborted album master was “Jeremy’s Theme.” It was a complete surprise, and to just suddenly hear it, an unknown Williams piece from 1987 just coming out of nowhere like that was a very surreal moment.

    NSB: And as it was a concert suite it would have never been on the cue sheet. There weren’t any notes included with the album master to refer to?


    MM: Just a track listing and timings, and where the break was for the LP version. To look at the paperwork, as far as I knew it might have been something by Paul Fishman. I pretty much expected something deceptive like the track called “Love Theme” on the original Superman III album. Instead it was a classic Williams theme that was halfway between E.T. and Hook, musically as well as chronologically. It’s very similar to the “Childhood” theme from Hook, which was actually written in the mid-1980s when Williams and Leslie Bricusse were developing a musical Peter Pan. It also resembles “Jim’s New Life” from Empire of the Sun a bit, and you’ll even find the theme showing up in other Williams scores, such as the motive for the “Panama Hat” character at the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and again much later when just playing it in a minor key turns it into the conspiracy theme forAttack of the Clones. It was startling to find out that an undiscovered piece fromSuperman IV was actually a fully developed theme made from a little phrase Williams used fairly often.

    NSB: The use of the word “surreal” is accurate. The Superman IV album was a buried time capsule from 1987. Do you think Williams objected to that album not being released at the time?

    MM: I don’t think he paid it any attention. He considered it Alexander Courage’s project and the album wasn’t one he was producing. He was finishing up The Witches of Eastwick and starting his eighth season with the Boston Pops.Superman IV came and went and was not successful, so at the time it might have been an advantage that it was aborted considering how the film was received. It’s not like he needed the royalties it would generate.

    NSB: It also makes the discovery of the music 20 years later that much cooler.


    MM: True, but if it had been successful we might have heard those themes at Williams concerts over the years.

    NSB: So how soon after listening to the album did you get to start working on restoring this score?


    MM: As I recall it was fairly soon. I remember that you were here and we went to see Williams at the Bowl over Labor Day weekend and the material was just starting to come in. There was a false alarm when some of the reels seemed to be missing, so I waited to find out about that before I jumped too far into it. So it was sometime in September 2006 that I started in earnest and it took at least a couple of months before it all started piecing itself together. It was a slow, but interesting and ultimately very satisfying process and probably by the beginning of 2007 we had the complete score together, not realizing, of course, that it would take all year to do the book and get all the approvals. It was very tough to have the score to listen to but not be able to talk about it.

    NSB: When you were working on it, was there any sort of roadmap to let you know what you were listening to and that you were putting things together properly?


    MM: The roadmap was a combination of the Warner Bros. music library cue sheet, Alexander Courage’s “London book,” found at his home, documentation from his collection at Eastman School of Music, and the paperwork in the 2-inch reels and on their boxes. By the time the score was coming together, I got a look at the deleted scenes being released on DVD and everything lined up and it was clear that it was all part of the version of the movie that Courage scored.

    NSB: A lot of people have complained about the quality of those cut scenes. Not from a filmmaking point of view, but rather from the actual visual quality of those scenes. However, as you noted in your article, each of those scenes corresponds with scenes that had music composed for them. Aren’t the “scratches” that move across the screen “streamers” which are used to keep the conductor in sync with the picture?


    MM: They don’t look like the streamers that would be actually on a print used at recording sessions, but they strike me as preliminary versions of them, perhaps from a music editor’s workprint. They look a bit like dissolve marks, but those wouldn’t go through entire scenes like these do. I do think those clips were generated for scoring purposes because in each case the footage matches the beginning and ending of a music cue. In other words, we didn’t get any scenes that didn’t have music composed for them and that’s probably why this footage existed. It was my understanding that the long version of the film and a lot of material was ordered destroyed in 1987.

    NSB: Speaking of those cut scenes, any idea why all of them are temped and one of them has the actual music composed for it, the already mentioned “Mutual Distrust?”

    MM: No idea at all. For some reason, that cue was available. It might have been because it was on the album, but so was “Tornado,” yet the workprint version of that scene uses music from the first film. But that’s another story because the finished scene was actually in the international version and could have been presented instead of the workprint version with unfinished effects shots.
    Última edición por Branagh/Doyle; 03/06/2018 a las 15:28
    Jau79, Charles Lee Ra y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  11. #2861
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Sigue:


    NSB: The number thrown around when describing the long version of Superman IV is 134 minutes, yet with all of this music and footage available it comes to about two hours of material. Does it seem like there could be another few minutes of cut material out there?


    MM: I’m convinced that the film was not 134 minutes when it was previewed in Orange County sometime in late June 1987. Apart from the four minute disco sequence there are a few scripted scenes that we know were shot that were on the DVD, and also a few small bits like a couple of lines from Superman’s first conversation with Lex Luthor, but it’s unlikely that these accounted for more than a few minutes of film. The scene of Clark visiting his adopted parents’ graves was definitely cut out before the film was scored. There are photos of other moments in the fight with Nuclear Man I but the scene as shown on the DVD is the version that Courage scored. Footage was not added back in between the scoring and the preview. It’s likely that the 134 minute number came from a first rough cut and that the actual length of the preview version was perhaps 124. Reports have surfaced over the years that the long version was broadcast in syndication or in another country, and every time this occurs the claim is always followed by a convenient excuse… the tape cannot be found, it was loaned to someone and never returned, my dog ate it, etc. There have even been some intentionally bogus attempts to lead fans down a primrose path with this, and it’s really gotten old. If it is in fact out there, then any claim needs to be instantaneously backed up with the evidence. If it’s not, then fans shouldn’t waste one second paying attention to them.

    NSB: I became jaded to the claims of people having the 134 minute version a long time ago. None of the major deleted scenes showed up anywhere until the DVD came out. Getting back to the music, what was the composing arrangement between Williams and Courage and the filmmakers?

    MM: The arrangement was that Williams would supply the new themes and Courage would add them to the palate and arrange the score using as much Williams material as he wanted. Williams wrote the lead sheets for the new themes and indicated his own orchestration in eight lines, as he always does, which Courage then extended out to full orchestra parts. The best evidence I could piece together suggests that Williams viewed clips of the film with Courage while they were working on The Witches of Eastwick but it’s unclear exactly when Williams actually composed the new themes, but it was certainly before Courage left for England in early April of 1987. There were definitely other conversations between Williams and Courage during May while Williams was in Boston and Williams was sent some more scenes to view on tape when Courage wanted his input. It was an unusual arrangement, I guess, but these guys co-orchestrated Fiddler on the Roof together, worked side by side at Fox, and went all the way back to the ‘50s at Columbia. When you have that kind of history with someone you work with almost one mind, so the fact that Williams was not present and involved day-to-day on Superman IV doesn’t mean he wasn’t an influence, because Courage knew that his job was to do a new Superman score in Williams’s style.

    NSB: Courage scored a lot of television in the ‘60s and ‘70s but had he ever been the composer on a feature film before this?

    MM: He did do features in the late ‘50s before he went into television. The Left Handed Gun is probably the most well-known. He really enjoyed television and achieved great success there, but when things started changing in the late ‘70s he gradually shifted away from it and back to orchestrating features.

    NSB: And he was offered Superman IV on Williams’s recommendation?

    MM: Yes. They had worked together on Yes, Giorgio (in which Courage appears as the on-screen conductor of the Metropolitan Opera!) and that led to Courage doing several arrangements for the Boston Pops concerts and recordings, including his own Star Trek theme and the Fiddler on the Roof suite that Williams still plays in concert. I’m sure it was clear to Williams when Superman IV came up that Sandy was the ideal person to handle it.

    NSB: You mentioned Alexander Courage’s “London book” earlier. Did he do all of the composing for this film while in London?

    MM: Yes, he did. He went over there right after he finished doing some orchestration on Eastwick and he was there for almost two months with his family at a house in Chelsea. He went by himself to Germany but when those recording sessions didn’t work out he was able to just continue on at CTS. His children remember him working extremely hard on the project.

    NSB: And it sounds like it. Did he also do the orchestrating on this score?

    MM: There were two other orchestrators on it, but Courage really dictated what he wanted being as experienced as he was in the field. Obviously he also used the Spencer/Morton orchestrations from Williams’s original as a launching point when he was reusing cues and he tried to extend their approach into the new material. “Fresh Air” is a great example of that. It helped that he was also working on other Williams scores at the time because he knew what John would have wanted. You can detect some Goldsmith influence as well since Sandy also worked Supergirl not long before that, particularly in the use of synthesizers. So he really was the perfect choice for Superman IV.

    NSB: Once all of the writing was completed, the plan was to go to Germany to record the score. What happened then?

    MM: They contracted the Graunke Symphony, now the Munich Symphony, which had done The Wind and the Lion, but for some reason there were performance problems on Superman IV. Some of the simpler cues were fine but the complex action cues just weren’t coming together and the budget did not allow the time to record ten takes of everything and then cut it together later. So after a week it was decided that it would be more cost effective to just abort the sessions and go back to CTS and continue with the National Philharmonic in England.[/I]
    Última edición por Branagh/Doyle; 03/06/2018 a las 15:29
    Jau79, Charles Lee Ra y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  12. #2862
    Chico del futuro Avatar de Marty_McFly
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Charles Lee Ra Ver mensaje

    Es curioso lo de Superman. Primero nos "perdimos" el Superman II de Donner, y luego el Superman IV que pudo ser...
    Bueno, la media hora que se cortó está casi entera en los extras del DVD/BD y...
    Ya te digo yo que no es otro Superman II, en este caso la mutilación hizo al menos más corto el desastre.
    I'd imagine the whole world was one big machine. Machines never come with any extra parts, you know. They always come with the exact amount they need. So I figured, if the entire world was one big machine, I couldn't be an extra part. I had to be here for some reason.(HUGO)

  13. #2863
    Vigilante Avatar de Branagh/Doyle
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    22 jun, 14
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Marty_McFly Ver mensaje
    Bueno, la media hora que se cortó está casi entera en los extras del DVD/BD y...
    Ya te digo yo que no es otro Superman II, en este caso la mutilación hizo al menos más corto el desastre.
    Ah.. eso explica por qué lo quitaron.
    Charles Lee Ra, Jane Olsen y PrimeCallahan han agradecido esto.
    (...)


    I read to live in other people's lives.
    I read about the joys, the world
    Dispenses to the fortunate,
    And listen for the echoes.

    I read to live, to get away from life!

    There is a flower which offers nectar at the top,
    Delicious nectar at the top and bitter poison underneath.
    The butterfly that stays too long and drinks too deep

    Is doomed to die.

    I read to fly, to skim!
    I do not read to swim!

    (...)

    -Stephen Sondheim, Passion-

  14. #2864
    We don't care about Avatar de PrimeCallahan
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Branagh/Doyle Ver mensaje
    Ah.. eso explica por qué lo quitaron.
    Nuclear Man molaba

  15. #2865
    Music of the Night Avatar de Jane Olsen
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Pues yo sigo pensando que con más pasta y un guión más pulido, SIV podría haber sido una gran película de Superman.

    Cita Iniciado por PrimeCallahan Ver mensaje
    Nuclear Man molaba
    Hubiera molado más sin esa melena llena de laca y esas uñas postizas de choni poligonera ...
    Zander, Alejandro D. y Charles Lee Ra han agradecido esto.
    "There is an inmense joy when you suddenly discover beauty in something that has been around you for ages".

    "Waving the flag with one hand and picking pockets with the other: that's your patriotism. Well, you can have it." Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious.


    "Listen to them... Children of the night! What music they make..!"

  16. #2866
    freak
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Marty_McFly Ver mensaje
    Bueno, la media hora que se cortó está casi entera en los extras del DVD/BD y...
    De hecho se cortaron 45 minutos. Había escenas con Clark y la rubia en una discoteca.
    Charles Lee Ra y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.

  17. #2867
    freak
    Fecha de ingreso
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Jane Olsen Ver mensaje
    Pues yo sigo pensando que con más pasta y un guión más pulido, SIV podría haber sido una gran película de Superman.
    Yo también y me alegra saber que no soy el único que lo cree
    Alejandro D., Charles Lee Ra y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.

  18. #2868
    freak
    Fecha de ingreso
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Añado: en la adaptación al cómic, que aún conservo, se ven todas las escenas eliminadas.
    Charles Lee Ra, janiji y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.

  19. #2869
    Video Home System User Avatar de Charles Lee Ra
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Zander Ver mensaje
    Añado: en la adaptación al cómic, que aún conservo, se ven todas las escenas eliminadas.
    ¡Yo también la conservo! Soy un aficionado a coleccionar adaptaciones de pelis a cómic, que en muchísimos casos llevaban escenas no incluidas en la película (o viceversa) porque solían partir como base de un guión cuando la película todavía no estaba terminada.







    Como curiosidad, en Arrebato (una de las películas que más pasión me despierta) cuando el protagonista, Jose, pasea con su coche por la noche madrileña se ven varias marquesinas de cines, entre ellas uno donde se proyecta Superman:



    También conservo varias pelis VHS de Cannon Group donde se anunciaban, en la parte interna de la carátula, dos películas de la compañía.

    Jau79, Marty_McFly, Zander y 3 usuarios han agradecido esto.

  20. #2870
    gurú
    Fecha de ingreso
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Jane Olsen Ver mensaje
    Pues yo sigo pensando que con más pasta y un guión más pulido, SIV podría haber sido una gran película de Superman.



    Hubiera molado más sin esa melena llena de laca y esas uñas postizas de choni poligonera ...
    Yo pienso lo mismo Jane,y a pesar del desastre que es en gran parte,me gusta más que Superman III película a la cual odio y ni me parece una de Superman.
    Charles Lee Ra y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.

  21. #2871
    freak
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Superman III es un film para el lucimiento de Richard Pryor.
    Alejandro D., Charles Lee Ra y Jane Olsen han agradecido esto.

  22. #2872
    Video Home System User Avatar de Charles Lee Ra
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Ay, compañeros míos. Superman III. La maldita. La Que No Debe Ser Nombrada

    A mi me gusta, con reservas, pero las partes que me gustan, me encantan. Me refiero claro, al regreso de Clark a ese bucólico Smalville, su encuentro con Lana Lang, ahora divorciada y con un hijo, y su reconexión con esa vida más tranquila y menos compleja que se desarrolla en el mundo rural donde creció. Supone una especie de "descanso del guerrero". Me parece que son escenas, a la par que hermosísimas, muy adultas, nos muestran "algo más" de lo que es la vida. Es una parte de la película que es como un oasis de agua potable en medio de un desierto radioactivo. pero me encantan







    Desde luego, se desaprovecha brutalmente a la pobre Lois y todo ese mundillo del Daily Planet. Y de los villanos, para que vamos a hablar: lamentable.

    Tengo por ahí guardada la novelización de Superman III, por cierto a ver si la encuentro y la posteo, era un librito firmado por William Kotzwinkle (he tenido que buscarlo en google, a ver quien se acuerda de semejante apellido) un famoso "novelizador" que en los 80 firmó varios libros basados en películas, como el de E.T., el Extraterrestre.
    Marty_McFly, Zander, jack napier y 3 usuarios han agradecido esto.

  23. #2873
    Music of the Night Avatar de Jane Olsen
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Cita Iniciado por Zander Ver mensaje
    Superman III es un film para el lucimiento de Richard Pryor.
    Efectivamente, es una película de Richard Pryor en la que sale Superman.

    Cita Iniciado por Charles Lee Ra Ver mensaje
    Ay, compañeros míos. Superman III. La maldita. La Que No Debe Ser Nombrada

    A mi me gusta, con reservas, pero las partes que me gustan, me encantan. Me refiero claro, al regreso de Clark a ese bucólico Smalville, su encuentro con Lana Lang, ahora divorciada y con un hijo, y su reconexión con esa vida más tranquila y menos compleja que se desarrolla en el mundo rural donde creció. Supone una especie de "descanso del guerrero". Me parece que son escenas, a la par que hermosísimas, muy adultas, nos muestran "algo más" de lo que es la vida. Es una parte de la película que es como un oasis de agua potable en medio de un desierto radioactivo. pero me encantan








    Desde luego, se desaprovecha brutalmente a la pobre Lois y todo ese mundillo del Daily Planet. Y de los villanos, para que vamos a hablar: lamentable.

    Tengo por ahí guardada la novelización de Superman III, por cierto a ver si la encuentro y la posteo, era un librito firmado por William Kotzwinkle (he tenido que buscarlo en google, a ver quien se acuerda de semejante apellido) un famoso "novelizador" que en los 80 firmó varios libros basados en películas, como el de E.T., el Extraterrestre.
    Fíjate cómo me parecerá SIII, que hasta me gusta más SIV, cutre como es y con el hombre radioactivo de las uñas choni.

    De SIII sólo puedo salvar la trama del Superman malo.
    Última edición por Jane Olsen; 04/06/2018 a las 17:17
    Zander, Alejandro D., Charles Lee Ra y 1 usuarios han agradecido esto.
    "There is an inmense joy when you suddenly discover beauty in something that has been around you for ages".

    "Waving the flag with one hand and picking pockets with the other: that's your patriotism. Well, you can have it." Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious.


    "Listen to them... Children of the night! What music they make..!"

  24. #2874
    Music of the Night Avatar de Jane Olsen
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Editado.
    "There is an inmense joy when you suddenly discover beauty in something that has been around you for ages".

    "Waving the flag with one hand and picking pockets with the other: that's your patriotism. Well, you can have it." Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious.


    "Listen to them... Children of the night! What music they make..!"

  25. #2875
    maestro Avatar de janiji
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    Predeterminado Re: Revisando la saga de Superman

    Viendo las imágenes de Superman III de más arriba, si Lana Lang ha visto una foto del joven Clark Kent sin gafas y luego al Super, ¿sospecha que son la misma persona, o lo sabe pero se hace la sueca?

    He oído que en el VHS de Superman IV hay más escenas que las que hay en el DVD y Blu-ray, donde aparecen como eliminadas, y con unas enormes rayas y transparencias sin terminar. ¿Aparecían en condiciones en el VHS, no se pueden recuperar? También faltaría el doblaje original.

    Si en SIV las escenas eliminadas están en panorámico, como la propia película, en SIII están en 4:3, ya adaptadas a una televisión cuadrada. ¿También hubo una versión en VHS con esas escenas añadidas?
    Charles Lee Ra y Branagh/Doyle han agradecido esto.

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