Tema: El macro-post de La venganza de los Sith antes de verla

Esa imagen lleva circulando por ahi varios meses lo que me lleva a pensar que es fake ya que el verdadero poster del ep3 no llegara posiblemente hasta marzo con la salida del nuevo trailer. Por otro lado las fotos que ha usado el autor, de Padme, Yoda y Mace pertenecen al ep2, incluso la de obi-wan me da a mi que tb es del episodio anterior.

Mmm acabo de leer el nuevo spoiler que han lanzado los de Millennium Falcon, no suelo leerlos todos pero este tenia especial interes para mi, por ser tal vez una de las partes mas emocionalmente intensas. Por supuesto no voy a decir cual es, pero si voy a comentar que la 1ª impresión que me causo es que de nuevo Lucas ha escrito diálogos muy ligeros, a cierta gente joven que sean fans de la saga igual les emociona, pero para los que ya estamos creciditos y que igualmente somos fans esperamos algo mas, la situación lo requiere pero el personaje en cuestión solo se limita a decir un par de frases sin sentimiento y muy vacias, al menos sobre el papel. Ahora todo depende de la interpretación del actor o de la actriz para sacar las emociones que no tiene el guión y esto va a ser muy dificil a no ser que estos olviden su habitual desgana y se centren metiéndose en el papel.
<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/sad3.gif ALT=":(((">

SalU2.

</p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=runciterr c>Runciter RC</A> fecha: 23/1/05 13:55

A ver, es fake, o por lo menos le veo unos fallos bastante gordos que la cagan al maximo pero bueno, aqui van:

-Todo es demasiado grande, osea apenas ai borde del color de fondo y normalmente suelen ser todo el popurri de personajes en el centro pero dejando un borde alrededor de todo el poster con el color de fondo

-El fondo no creo que hayan elegido si fuese el original esa "galaxia" ese fondo lleno de estrellitas porque no queda nada bien y hace que se te vaya la vista y no te quedes mirando lo importante del cartel.

-Demasiado brillo en la imagen (no apta para epilepticos <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/tongue2.gif ALT=":P"> ), por ejemplo en los planetas, anakin apenas se diferencia del planeta que tiene detras y si el digamos que es lo mas importante de la peliy ta en "segundo plano" pues vaya full.

-Ewan Mcgregor, parece que la foto la hayan sacado de una foto casera o algo asi, mirando fijamente el objetivo con cara de decir "hey hey joder la foto ya que me estoy cagando macho!"

- Si os fijais en el trozo del traje de Mace Windu que da hacia el pelo de Portman, se ve unos brillos/halos blancos tela de cutres, vamos que pegan el cantazo de copy&paste

- El "canalillo" de la portman roza demasiado con el titulo de abajo y eso ni de coña se puede hacer, nose se ve todo como to apiñao ai intentando meter mil cosas en un tamaño bastante pequeño <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/tongue2.gif ALT=":P">

PD: Joder Es que windu la caga pero cagarla osea k cutrez ai to puesto x_D
PD2: Estaba aburrido por ello esa descomposicion del cartel para demostrar que es fake XD

</p>

El cartel es un fake, sin dida.

Runciter, dime almenos ese spoiler por ez andaaaa <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/laugh4.gif ALT=":lol"> Por cierto, te he visto en los fotos de theforce.net <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

Que la Fuerza os acompañe.<hr /><center>

</p></center><span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><font size="1">Enlaces y fechas a próximos estrenos</font><font size="1"> (by woody y el menda)</font></center> <span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><span style="font-family:verdana; font-size:x-small;"><script language = "javascript" type="text/javascript">var DiaCuentaAtras = 19;var MesCuentaAtras = 5; var AnhoCuentaAtras = 2005;var MensajeDiaD = "La venganza de los Sith ya en cines";var FraseAnterior = "Quedan ";var FrasePosterior = " dias para La venganza de los Sith"; var strOutput;DiaCuentaAtras++;MesCuentaAtras--;var FechaAhora = new Date();var FechaEntonces = new Date(CreaFecha(MesCuentaAtras, DiaCuentaAtras, AnhoCuentaAtras));var Diferencia = FechaEntonces.getTime() - FechaAhora.getTime();Diferencia = Math.floor(Diferencia / (1000 * 60 * 60 * 24));if(Diferencia < 0) strOutput = "";if(Diferencia == 0) strOutput = MensajeDiaD;if(Diferencia > 0) strOutput = FraseAnterior + Diferencia + FrasePosterior;function CreaFecha(mes, dia, year){ var strFormateada; var Meses = new Array(12); Meses[0] = "January"; Meses[1] = "February"; Meses[2] = "March"; Meses[3] = "April"; Meses[4] = "May"; Meses[5] = "June"; Meses[6] = "July"; Meses[7] = "August"; Meses[8] = "September"; Meses[9] = "Octuber"; Meses[10] = "November"; Meses[11] = "December"; strFormateada = Meses[mes] + ", " + dia + " " + year; return strFormateada;}// --></script><script> </script></span></center></p>

Ahí va el bestia-spoiler:
<span style="color:white;">
TERNIAN REPORT: The Death of Amidala Skywalker

"She was very beautiful. Kind...but sad." - Leia Skywalker, RotJ

"If it's a girl...we were going to name her Leia..." says Padme as the birth of her daughter begins.

A medical droid approaches Padme. "It's a boy," it says. Padme reaches out and touches the infants head.

"Luke," she says. A second baby is baby is brought to her by the droid.

"It's a girl," says the droid. But Padme is no longer her self - she is delirious.

"Anakin!" she suddenly cries. Obi-Wan comforts her, telling her that Anakin is not there and that she has had twins.

Padme begins to talk, drifiting in and out of consciousness. "Anakin, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry... Anakin, please... I love you..."

Yoda enters the room and Obi-Wan shakes his head in sorrow. But then Padme regains consciousness for one last time and puts something into Kenobi's hand.

"Obi-Wan, there is still good in him...I know...there...is...still..."

As Padme Amidala Skywalker dies, Obi-Wan opens his hand and gazes upon a jaipor snippet.</span>
Fin bestia-spoiler

La parte final es una buena idea, lo reconozco, pero si estamos en esa situación crítica es de suponer que se tenga que aprovechar el momento para decir lo que uno lleva dentro y eso no se resume en un par de lineas como si fueran de relleno.
Asimilando toda esta información durante un rato he llegado a la conclusión de que tal vez esta sea una de las escenas mas cruciales e importantes del ep3 en cuando a emociones y drama. Hay muchos elementos ahí para generar drama y que el espectador se lo crea y le llegue, no solo el ver el destino del propio personaje, sino lo que le rodea y lo que le une con todo eso, y tiene que pasar por la cabeza del personaje y por su boca tiene que salir tb en forma de diálogo. Así que despues de leer lo que dice me ha resultado antidramático total o al menos incompleto.

Anda...Yu tb estas por el foro de TheForce?con que nick?, que pequeño es el mundo, bueno en realidad se suele ir a probar los mejores sitios donde sirvan caviar marca Star Wars. <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/laugh3.gif ALT=":DDD">

SalU2

</p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=runciterr c>Runciter RC</A> fecha: 23/1/05 18:34

Mmmm, nosé, nosé, me huele a chamusquina esa escena... Veremos en mayo a ver qué tal.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Yu tb estas por el foro de TheForce?con que nick?<hr></blockquote>
Jeje. Bueno, yo más que estar en esos foros, los leo, a veces pongo un post pero participo muy poco. Estoy con el nick Darth_Rafalet.

Que la Fuerza os acompañe.<hr /><center>

</p></center><span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><font size="1">Enlaces y fechas a próximos estrenos</font><font size="1"> (by woody y el menda)</font></center> <span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><span style="font-family:verdana; font-size:x-small;"><script language = "javascript" type="text/javascript">var DiaCuentaAtras = 19;var MesCuentaAtras = 5; var AnhoCuentaAtras = 2005;var MensajeDiaD = "La venganza de los Sith ya en cines";var FraseAnterior = "Quedan ";var FrasePosterior = " dias para La venganza de los Sith"; var strOutput;DiaCuentaAtras++;MesCuentaAtras--;var FechaAhora = new Date();var FechaEntonces = new Date(CreaFecha(MesCuentaAtras, DiaCuentaAtras, AnhoCuentaAtras));var Diferencia = FechaEntonces.getTime() - FechaAhora.getTime();Diferencia = Math.floor(Diferencia / (1000 * 60 * 60 * 24));if(Diferencia < 0) strOutput = "";if(Diferencia == 0) strOutput = MensajeDiaD;if(Diferencia > 0) strOutput = FraseAnterior + Diferencia + FrasePosterior;function CreaFecha(mes, dia, year){ var strFormateada; var Meses = new Array(12); Meses[0] = "January"; Meses[1] = "February"; Meses[2] = "March"; Meses[3] = "April"; Meses[4] = "May"; Meses[5] = "June"; Meses[6] = "July"; Meses[7] = "August"; Meses[8] = "September"; Meses[9] = "Octuber"; Meses[10] = "November"; Meses[11] = "December"; strFormateada = Meses[mes] + ", " + dia + " " + year; return strFormateada;}// --></script><script> </script></span></center></p>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Hay q agradecer a Luca$ q facilite tanta info, asi nos ahorrara el ver la horrenda peli. <hr></blockquote>

claro claro, muy muy horrenda pero los primeros en las taquillas y para comprar el dvd estaran la mayoria de los criticones

para horrendas ya tenemos pelis de 12 de ocean, capitanes Sky o Alejandritos Magnos , Gracias.

<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/smartass.gif ALT=":muyalloro">

</p>

Anda claro, como que disfrutamos sufriendo.

Admítolo: Con esta película disfrutaré en el cine tanto como en Episodio II. Es decir, mucho mucho mucho.


<div style="text-align:center">¿Quieren una predicción del invierno? Yo se la daré. Va a ser frío, va a ser gris... y va a durar el resto de sus vidas.</div></p>

Yo soy de los que pasa rápido las secuencias de amor,pero el episodio 2 tenÃ*a otras muchas cosas que nada tenÃ*an que ver con eso.
Disfrutaré como un jawa.

la-ruina-de-la-familia.blogspot.com

</p>

Coño Budwhite...

cuanto tiempo <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/laugh3.gif ALT=":DDD">


<div style="text-align:center"><span style="color:#617FAC;font-size:xx-small;">Cabalgamos juntos... Morimos juntos... Rebeldes para siempre.</span>
DVD</div></p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hinomurak rycek>Hinomura Krycek</A> fecha: 23/1/05 23:01

Sobre el spoiler supergrandedemasatrás .... IMPOSIBLE ... ¿o Lucas no ha visto ERDJ? .... <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/incredulo.gif ALT=":oo"> ... Coño ... claro .. que tonta .. se es que el Retorno ya no es lo que era ..... <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/apaleao.gif ALT=":apaleao">

<span style="color:#617FAC;font-size:xx-small;">Hazlo, o no lo Hagas, pero NO LO INTENTES</span></p>

Hombre, no es por justificar las meteduras de pata de Jorgito, pero tampoco creo que ese MegaSpoilerDeAntes sea incompatible con esa frase del Retorno. [Explicación en blanco] <span style="color:white;">Cuando Leia habla de su madre y dice lo de "...beautiful. Kind... but sad", aunque pensemos que se refiere a su madre biólogica, puede referirse perfectamente a su madre adoptiva, la mujer de Bail Organa.</span> [Fin explicación] Aunque muchos no estén (estemos) de acuerdo.

</p>

El maravilloso don de George Lucas para cargarse escenas de la trilogía original (continuación del mega-spoiler de antes):
<blockquote>Quote:<hr><span style="color:white;">Yoda sale fuera del centro médico y habla con Qui-Gon. Deciden el destino de los gemelos y entregan a Leia a Bail Organa.
Yoda revela un secreto a Obi-Wan que cambiará nuestra forma de ver a Yoda.
No se sabe que puede ser, dicen que es algo nuevo en la saga.

La información que ha salido habla de que Qui-Gon es realmente el maestro Jedi más importante de la historia... Más que Yoda. Qui-Gon ordena a Obi-Wan que lleve a Luke a Tatooine y permanezca allí hasta que sea mayor. La misión de Obi-Wan es hacer que Luke mate a Vader, para eso, Obi tiene que engañar a Luke ( este es el sable de tu padre, él quería que te lo diera, ... Vader mató a tu padre... ).


También dice algo de que los recuerdos que tiene Leia sobre su madre, son falsos, una ilusión creada por la fuerza...</span><hr></blockquote>
<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/apaleao.gif ALT=":apaleao">

Que la Fuerza os acompañe.<hr /><center>

</p></center><span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><font size="1">Enlaces y fechas a próximos estrenos</font><font size="1"> (by woody y el menda)</font></center> <span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><span style="font-family:verdana; font-size:x-small;"><script language = "javascript" type="text/javascript">var DiaCuentaAtras = 19;var MesCuentaAtras = 5; var AnhoCuentaAtras = 2005;var MensajeDiaD = "La venganza de los Sith ya en cines";var FraseAnterior = "Quedan ";var FrasePosterior = " dias para La venganza de los Sith"; var strOutput;DiaCuentaAtras++;MesCuentaAtras--;var FechaAhora = new Date();var FechaEntonces = new Date(CreaFecha(MesCuentaAtras, DiaCuentaAtras, AnhoCuentaAtras));var Diferencia = FechaEntonces.getTime() - FechaAhora.getTime();Diferencia = Math.floor(Diferencia / (1000 * 60 * 60 * 24));if(Diferencia < 0) strOutput = "";if(Diferencia == 0) strOutput = MensajeDiaD;if(Diferencia > 0) strOutput = FraseAnterior + Diferencia + FrasePosterior;function CreaFecha(mes, dia, year){ var strFormateada; var Meses = new Array(12); Meses[0] = "January"; Meses[1] = "February"; Meses[2] = "March"; Meses[3] = "April"; Meses[4] = "May"; Meses[5] = "June"; Meses[6] = "July"; Meses[7] = "August"; Meses[8] = "September"; Meses[9] = "Octuber"; Meses[10] = "November"; Meses[11] = "December"; strFormateada = Meses[mes] + ", " + dia + " " + year; return strFormateada;}// --></script><script> </script></span></center></p>

nunca me he ido, Krycek, nunca me he ido.<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/smartass.gif ALT=":muyalloro">

como tu cada vez que entras en este post <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=":D">

</p>

Recomiendo copiarlo todo en el word y guardarlo para leerlo unas cuantas veces con tranquilidad.
La ostia en vinagre (con perdon):
<span style="color:white;">
From the JC:

Boo-noo-doo wrote:* * * *
I've been wondering about the living/unifying force issue for years. Remember, Qui Gon is an adept of the Living Force : in TPM, he tells OB1 he should be mindful of the living force ; OB1 answers "but master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future". So, the living force is opposed to constantly trying to search for the consequences of your actions in the future. This is what the jedi have become in the waning days of the republic : they act as seers for the Senate.
On the OS forum, I asked Pablo about the opposition between the living force and the unifying force. He said this issue wouldn't be addressed exactly in these terms, "but there is nevertheless some food for thought". Which means, imho, that even if the words are not used, the concepts will be meaningful in EPIII : in other words, QuiGon's conception (the "living force&quot<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> will be opposed to the jedi's vision (the "unifying force&quot<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> , the latter being less than successful. I think it will have something to do with the jedi disappearing trick : QG, as an adept of the living force, could retain his identity through death. Yoda and Obiwan will understand that the jedi who believe in the "unifying force" (including themselves), are wrong. By listening to the living force, you can retain your identity. In fact, QG's position as a renegade jedi will be revealed to be the only true use of the Force. Remember how Yoda was reluctant to read the future for Luke in ESB. Remember what he tells Luke : he criticized him for setting his mind on the horizon, on the future, rather than concentrating on the here and now. These are QG's tenets, verbatim. I think the distinction between living and unifying force is central to the whole saga. Hence the importance of the first lines spoken by QG and OB1 in the very first episode.* * * *

Pikaroth wrote:* * * *
The "balance" is between the Living Force and Unifying Force. A Jedi must use both equally, but, as we see in "The Phantom Menace," all the Jedi, minus Qui-Gon, seem to not care about the here and now. The Council, while not outright corrupt, is dying and needs to do so.

Now, follow me here. Windu states, "You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force." Everyone seems to think, again, that the balance is between the Jedi and Sith. However, if we are to assume the Jedi believe in this prophecy, as Windu and Yoda and others do, then they also fully believe the Sith *are* extinct. It is not until the discovery of Darth Maul's body that the Jedi realize the Sith are back. So, thinking the Sith are gone for good, they still believe in this prophecy. By that fact, the prophecy can have nothing to do with the Sith.

By the time we catch up with Yoda in "The Empire Strikes Back," he is sounding much more like Qui-Gon did in "Menace." You do need to look to the future, you do need to take into account what your actions will have, but you also need to "keep your concentration here and now," as Qui-Gon states in "Menace." You need to help those around you right here, right now, do not wait for the future to take care of that for you. * * * *

PimpLordoftheSith wrote:* * * *
"Always he looks away... to the future. Humph! Never his mind on *where* *he* *was*! *What* *he* *was doing*!"

There it is in those words to Luke. After hearing the opening dialogue from TPM between Qui-Gon and Obi.

Not one Jedi in the republic saw there actions all the way through from current (living Force) to the final vision (unifying force). What happens when you don't see your current actions through to the end they usually fail. What happens when you day dream about what might come lose focus on the here and now.

What am I doing now? How will this effect the future? The balanced force has spoken.* * * *

Brilliant posts. I think they've got it!

Harmonizing the "Living Force" + "Greater Cosmic force"=

B-A-L-A-N-C-E Of The Force

'Balance of the Force' actually means harmonizing those two aspects of the energy field. It's beyond Good and Evil.....beyond the light or dark side....beyond the Jedi and Sith.

Qui-Gon's philosophy of the force represents extremity of the former, while the Jedi of the old Republic (including Yoda) represent a radical use of the latter. The opening exchange between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in TPM set's that all up. Both aspects of the force are important.

In the past I've postulated theories about how 'balance of the force' transcends the Old Republic Jedi and the Sith. That Qui-Gon reflected the major flaws of the 'establishment', showcasing their heavy reliance on the "Greater unified force", which caused their downfall. And that Anakin by dying and killing his Sith master (through the redemption spurred on by his son), finally put an end to an era of imbalance because there were no longer any Sith or Republic Jedi disrupting the harmony of the force. Luke basically ushered in the beginning of a new kind of Jedi, one which balanced harmoniously, the 'living force' philosophies of Qui-Gon and the 'greater cosmic force' practiced by other Jedi of that era.

BALANCE.

However, the way in which I phrased my theory was by stating that 'Balance in the force' equals no Sith or Republic Jedi.

That's it.

I never flat out examined what it actually meant. That the 2 specific sides of the force were being balanced by those events! I was tap-dancing the issue, but this is IT.

After the extinction of two sects, Anakin's son represented a new beginning for the Jedi order. The son's love of his father prods the Chosen one's redemption and the 'Balance in the force' returns. This is indicative of a new kind of Jedi Knight, very unlike the emotionally guarded, monk-like order of the Old Republic. Luke's philosophy harkens back to Qui-Gon because he allows his immediate and personal experience with the real world (ie: his dad and friends) to not get superseded by the loftier matters regarding destiny and the future. But Luke doesn't ignore the 'greater cosmic" part of the force equation either-----he just refuses to let it consume him. This is crystalized by the Leia issue during ROTJ's duel, when emotionality in the 'here and now' almost turned Luke to the dark side. He wanted to believe in saving his father, but almost became consumed by the dark side when another personal issue got flung at him. He ended up persevering by not taking the myopic road.......

(Interestingly, Luke almost failed his journey by relying on premonitions of his friends in ESB. He wasn't balancing the 'Here and now' with the 'future and destiny' in that case, on many levels)

The downfall of the Jedi was they left themselves vulnerable to the Sith attack by relying too much on a particular angle of the force. That's why the Sith entering the picture disrupts the balance of the force.

Lucas almost gave the answer away as far back as 'The Making of TPM' book in 1999:

Quote:* * * *
"The Midi-Chlorians have brought Anakin into being as "the chosen one" who will balance the universe. The mystery around that theory is that we don't know yet whether the Chosen One is a good or bad person. He is to bring balance to the force; but at this point, we don't know what side of the force needs to be balanced out.

The overriding theme in all Star Wars movies is the balance BETWEEN good and evil. The Force itself breaks into 2 sides; the living force and a greater, cosmic force. The living force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive and allows you to read other people's minds, etc. But the greater force has do with destiny and you can choose to either follow it, or not."* * * *

Lucas doesn't say it straight out and tie it together, but it's obvious where this is going.

".....we don't know what SIDE of the force needs to be balanced"

The Force itself breaks into 2 SIDES; the living force and a greater, cosmic force.

Yes, the overriding theme in all SW movies is the balance between good and evil------but that does not equate to saying 'Balance of the Force' means between 'good and evil'! In fact I would venture there isn't a light or dark side attribute to the energy field itself. The force is The force-----it's neutral. However, there is a yin and yang dependent on the organic creature manipulating it.

Life creates it....makes it grow

It's how they manipulate it, stupid!

The light and dark side is that which is within each individual force user. So now what would constitute the "dark" side? When Vader chokes someone, he's using the darkside, but isn't that the same as when Luke grips a rock and lifts it with the force? It seems to me that light and dark side must be born from intent of the organic user, as opposed to actual power used. Vader's intent is to kill, hence he is drawing upon the darkness within himself. Eventually, with over use, that darkness consumes the user. Aggresive emotions will SEDUCE and are definitely the "quick and easy" path to power, but it's about emotional perspective/stability and intent. Basically, what the organic creature brings to the table is what affects and alters a neutral energy field. The Force and life are inseparable things, and the dark side and light side are phenomenon created by this union.

Now it becomes clear why the Jedi misinterpreted the prophesy----they are part of the problem. Considering the Sith are completely radical about controlling the 'Greater cosmic force' due to how amazingly it allows them to manipulate the future and destiny of the galaxy ie: Selfish desires.

And considering Sidious is all about feeding his selfish and nefarious ways ferociously, he's obviously gonna be infinitely more canny exploiting the future than the Jedi of the Old Republic ever possibly could. It's in his very evil and aggresive nature......

Advantage: Sith

Now the purveyors of the light side of the force are evil incarnate's puppets because they have become so focused on a philosophy which the Sith are dominant in, they are ripe for the pickings. The Sith controlling the Greater cosmic force in the PT era figuratively and literally, signifies the imbalance in the Force, something Yoda is slowly coming to grips with throughout the prequel arc. The Sith have tipped the balance of an overreliance on one equation of the Force, and the midchlorians are troubled by it. But the Jedi are culprits in this problem too! They're just to arrogant and set in their ways to see it.

A cut scene in AOTC specifically mentioned that only by using the dark side, can one see the FUTURE during the time of the PT era. That's what Yoda was doing when he meditated in the middle of the film-----probing the dark side. He now realizes that a dark shroud has basically completely covered their livelihood:

Quote:* * * *
MACE WINDU: Why couldn't we see this attack on the Senator?

YODA: Masking the future, is this disturbance in the Force.

MACE WINDU: The propecy is coming true, the Dark Side is growing.

YODA: And only those who have turned to the Dark Side can sense the possibilities of the future. Only going through the Dark Side can we see.

MACE WINDU: It's been ten years, and the Sith still have not shown themselves. Do you think they are behind this?

YODA:...Out there, they are. A certainty that is.

MACE WINDU: Do you think Obi-Wan's apprentice will be able to bring balance to the Force?

YODA: Only if he chooses to follow his destiny.* * * *

Quote:* * * *
OBI-WAN: Has Master Yoda gained any insight into whether or not this war will come about?

MACE WINDU: Probing the Dark Side is a dangerous process. He could be in seclusion for days... May the force be with you.* * * *

During the time of the Old Republic, Yoda and the gang have been constantly probing the future. As Obi-Wan stated at the beginning of TPM, they are very focused about being mindful of the future. Mace is shocked in that cut scene from AOTC regarding their inability to see terrorist attack on Coruscant, because they are all about probing the future. The Jedi were alarmed that a Sith could be around without their knowledge in TPM, because they are all about, you guessed it------probing the future. But if the Sith have been in control over that 'radio channel' for many years, this is obviously gonna cause an imbalance in the force. The midichlorians can't be too happy when the 'will of the force' is sending signals of extremity and imbalance within the cosmology of this all encompassing energy field. Too much organic energy is being overwhelmingly spent on one side of the force equation.

This is so symbolic and indicative of how completely radical the Jedi order had become. It's also why the only way the 'chosen one' could bring balance to the force was by playing a part in both orders' demise.

BOTH HAD TO GO.
----------------------------

Actually.....

There is one more thing I'm not sure about.

-We know about Qui-Gon's influence on the surviving members of the Old Republic order during the OT. The marked difference between PT Yoda and OT Yoda clearly points to this. Heck, Obi-Wan is already more like Qui-Gon in AOTC (his relationship with Dexter, etc...).

-We know from a guy who read the ***** (and I'm not talking about Pablo here) that Yoda and Obi-Wan realize the qualities of Qui-Gon's perception of the force, and make use of it due to it's practicality. They share the secret of the disapearing trick, and basically foreshadow that in case 'worse comes to worse' and the *blank* hits the fan in the future, they have this 'trick' to retain their identities after death. Basically, how this may come in handy for them with their great and important mission.

BUT HERE'S MY QUERY:

Are "Obi-Wan and Yoda of the OT" definitively the start of the new beginning?

I know they've changed and altered their perspective (They had to!). But were they consciously or subconsciously in on the possiblilities of Anakin's redemption at all? Was that part of their perception of Luke's journey?

Because it could go either way. To me, it feels like no matter how much Yoda and Obi-Wan have changed their outlook of 'the force' in the OT, they are still relics of the Old Republic. It can be easily read that they could not relate to Luke's love and belief in his father's redemption. That even with all the strides they made, they still couldn't escape their ties to their dead order. That the Dagobah scene in ROTJ symbolizes a break between the old and new Jedi.

But at the same time, Yoda and Obi-Wan HAVE definitely changed their perspective in the OT. How far did they go?

This could go either way. * * * *

Quote:* * * *
Quote:* * * *
The prophecy of the "one" that brings balance to the force is not just a jedi prophecy but a sith prophecy. Of course the sith prophecy believes it will result in only sith surviving, while the jedi believe vice versa. * * * *

And they were both wrong.

Now in terms of how George makes this cosmology work on the masses (especially without mentioning the terms 'living force", 'Greater cosmic force", etc.....)

Very simple.

It's all about characters and orders being avatar representations of the themes and symbolism of the myth. You are not required to contemplate them as themes to get understanding and enjoyment from the story.

Basically..........

Qui-Gon represents a specific and even rebellious (for it's time) perception of manipulating the force within the Jedi order.

The Old Republic Jedi represents the status quo method of manipulating the force during the era of the PT (something which led to their downfall, literally and figuratively)

The Living Force/Qui-Gon philosophy was the one which the Jedi were very prohibitive of during the time of the PT era, mostly because they believed dabbling on that side of the force in a liberal fashion, made you more susceptible to dark side tendencies. To the general audience, this equates to their fear of attachment within the living material world (ie: they're stiff :wink: ).

Qui-Gon was the opposite extreme in the sense that he was very much about embracing the living side of the force (much like I suspect his master Dooku was), even to the detriment of the bigger picture some times (ie: He's reckless....from a certain POV :wink: ).

Both sides should not be overemphasized or taken to extreme.

Sidious exploits both sides of the force ferociously, and makes the Jedi look like punks for so foolishly emphasizing only 'one side'. They left themselves wide open for an evil and malevolent force to destroy them and take over the universe. That's why the Sith have created an imbalance in the force.

Sidious also plucks Dooku and the chosen one, by playing on their living force desires. Especially Anakin, who joined the constricting order LATE, and was very vulnerable to Sidious' seduction (ie:emotional basket case...from a certain POV :wink: )

Now the Jedi obviously feared the Qui-Gon way because they were worried that it made you more susceptible to the dark side seductions. However, it will be Yoda and Obi-Wan's interaction with Qui-Gon in EP3 (however it's done) as all hell breaks loose and evil hides no longer, that will implicitly let the audience understand why the surviving Jedi have had to alter their outlook and philosophy of the force. Their fallen brethren and Qui-Gon symbolize the 2 sides of the force which the surviving Jedi will have to be cognizant of and balance, if the prophesy is to be achieved in the future.

The general public doesn't need to contemplate the nitty-gritty, deeper symbolism, and logistics. They will understand implicitly the connections between PT Jedi, OT Jedi, and Luke Skywalker, on emotional levels. And the clash, parallels, and distinct contrast between father and son will convey how Anakin relates in all of this.

I think EP3 is about emotions on so many levels (not to mention 'the dark side' being unleashed), and this is why these ideas will be better understood intuitively than the previous prequels. This is when the subtext of the first two chapters finally becomes TEXT.

At least I hope so. :shock:
</span>

<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/laleche.gif ALT=":laleche"> <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/babas.gif ALT=":babas"> <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/babas.gif ALT=":babas">
No si al final va a resultar que Lucas todavía sigue siendo un genio. <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/palomitas.gif ALT=":palomitas">

</p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=runciterr c>Runciter RC</A> fecha: 24/1/05 15:08

Mmmm aun es pronto pero hay dos posibiliades:

a) el mayor acierto de genialidad de George en toda la saga que haga que todo encaje de una manera bestial.

b) la mayor cagada de la historia dejando a la saga coja y llena de agujeros.

No se pero hay que dejar que los spoilers vayan fluyendo para empezar a encajar esas piezas y en Mayo despues de ver el resultado final decidir cual es la opción.

</p>

Runciter, querido, algunos no somos muy compatibles con el inglés <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/hola.gif ALT=":hola">

Que la Fuerza os acompañe.<hr /><center>

</p></center><span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><font size="1">Enlaces y fechas a próximos estrenos</font><font size="1"> (by woody y el menda)</font></center> <span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><span style="font-family:verdana; font-size:x-small;"><script language = "javascript" type="text/javascript">var DiaCuentaAtras = 19;var MesCuentaAtras = 5; var AnhoCuentaAtras = 2005;var MensajeDiaD = "La venganza de los Sith ya en cines";var FraseAnterior = "Quedan ";var FrasePosterior = " dias para La venganza de los Sith"; var strOutput;DiaCuentaAtras++;MesCuentaAtras--;var FechaAhora = new Date();var FechaEntonces = new Date(CreaFecha(MesCuentaAtras, DiaCuentaAtras, AnhoCuentaAtras));var Diferencia = FechaEntonces.getTime() - FechaAhora.getTime();Diferencia = Math.floor(Diferencia / (1000 * 60 * 60 * 24));if(Diferencia < 0) strOutput = "";if(Diferencia == 0) strOutput = MensajeDiaD;if(Diferencia > 0) strOutput = FraseAnterior + Diferencia + FrasePosterior;function CreaFecha(mes, dia, year){ var strFormateada; var Meses = new Array(12); Meses[0] = "January"; Meses[1] = "February"; Meses[2] = "March"; Meses[3] = "April"; Meses[4] = "May"; Meses[5] = "June"; Meses[6] = "July"; Meses[7] = "August"; Meses[8] = "September"; Meses[9] = "Octuber"; Meses[10] = "November"; Meses[11] = "December"; strFormateada = Meses[mes] + ", " + dia + " " + year; return strFormateada;}// --></script><script> </script></span></center></p>

Como tenga que traducir esto me puede dar un yuyu y caer en el lado oscuro, hazlo o no lo hagas pero no lo intentes je je.


</p>

Todavia sigo en estado de <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/incredulo.gif ALT=":oo"> <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/babas.gif ALT=":babas"> Mas secretitos spoilers en español:

<span style="color:white;">
"Mi fracaso esto fue, fracasar a los Jedi, esto hice". Maestro Yoda, ROTS.

En la cúpula de observación de cristal en la estación médica del cinturón de asteroides de Polis Massa, Yoda habla con la Fuerza como ya hiciera hace tiempo. La Fuerza le contesta con la voz de Qui-Gon Jinn.

Qui-Gon Jinn cuenta a Yoda que no se culpe por lo ocurrido, pero Yoda insiste en que él ha sido demasiado viejo, demasiado rígido para no darse cuenta de los cambios en la galaxia...

Yoda no había dejado cambiar a la Orden con ellos, nunca aprendió la completa profundidad de la Fuerza. Qui-Gon defiende al viejo maestro. Sugiere que Yoda tendrá mucho tiempo para aprender los caminos de la Fuerza y que con su ayuda será capaz de unirse con la Fuerza y permitir retener su conciencia, incluso con el tiempo la forma física.

Sin embargo, esto le suena a Yoda como la idea de la vida eternal. Qui-Gon esta de acuerdo y le recuerda que la vida eterna es exactamente lo que los Sith están buscando, pero que nunca encontrarán...

Qui-Gon dice: "por la realización, no por la exaltación de uno mismo. Llegar a través de la compasión, no de la codicia. El amor es la respuesta a la oscuridad".

Yoda admite haber subestimado el potencial de Qui-Gon como maestro Jedi.

Así que Yoda decide aprender de Qui-Gon. inclinándose declara:
"Qui-Gon, en tu aprendiz agradecidamente me convertiré".
</span>

Toma ya!!!! <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/babas.gif ALT=":babas"> <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/babas.gif ALT=":babas"> <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/babas.gif ALT=":babas"> pedazo de giro argumental que hara replantearnos todo.

</p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=runciterr c>Runciter RC</A> fecha: 26/1/05 11:58

Recapacita Rafalet, que esto es muy importante, se que las ideas nuevas para los fans de la vieja trilogía son dificiles de aceptar, pero en cierto modo hay un sentido lógico en todo esto. Somos como Yoda, arraigados en la doctrina de la Orden Jedi, ofuscados en predecir el futuro para modificarlo. Lucas plantea que esto ha llevado al total fracaso de la Orden y a un desequilibrio en la Fuerza, por lo tanto hay que hacer cambios para recuperar la ecuación balanceada, Luke, su aprendizaje tiene que llevarse a cabo con nuevas ideas, las ideas que Qui-Gon defendía que en definitiva seran las buenas, la Fuerza viva, el aquí y el ahora. Fijate como Obi y Yoda en la trilogía clásica instruyen y guian a Luke en este sentido, han cambiado, han aprendido. A mi esto me parece cojonudo. <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/laleche.gif ALT=":laleche">

</p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=runciterr c>Runciter RC</A> fecha: 26/1/05 12:21

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>por lo tanto hay que hacer cambios para recuperar la ecuación balanceada<hr></blockquote>
Tio, esto es Star Wars, no Matrix Reloaded <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/laugh4.gif ALT=":lol">
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>se que las ideas nuevas para los fans de la vieja trilogía son dificiles de aceptar<hr></blockquote>
Bueno, yo soy fan de ambas trilogías y defenderé a las dos a capa y espada porque me encantan. Las ideas nuevas... Pues ésta en concreto, de Yoda y Qui-Gon, la primera impresión reconozco que no ha sido muy buena, pero al final me acabará gustando <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=":D"> <span style="font-size:xx-small;">ya sabéis, mi personalidad múltiple...</span>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Fijate como Obi y Yoda en la trilogía clásica instruyen y guian a Luke en este sentido, han cambiado, han aprendido<hr></blockquote>
Esto... Esto me hace pensar en otro tema. El famoso ¿por qué Obi-Wan le dice a Luke que su maestro fue Yoda si en realidad fue Qui-Gon? Mmmmm, Obi-Wan ya le mintió a Luke una vez para que cogiera el camino indicado, antes de dirigirse a Mos Eisley, creo que pudo volverlo a hacer...

Que la Fuerza os acompañe.<hr /><center>

</p></center><span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><font size="1">Enlaces y fechas a próximos estrenos</font><font size="1"> (by woody y el menda)</font></center> <span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><span style="font-family:verdana; font-size:x-small;"><script language = "javascript" type="text/javascript">var DiaCuentaAtras = 19;var MesCuentaAtras = 5; var AnhoCuentaAtras = 2005;var MensajeDiaD = "La venganza de los Sith ya en cines";var FraseAnterior = "Quedan ";var FrasePosterior = " dias para La venganza de los Sith"; var strOutput;DiaCuentaAtras++;MesCuentaAtras--;var FechaAhora = new Date();var FechaEntonces = new Date(CreaFecha(MesCuentaAtras, DiaCuentaAtras, AnhoCuentaAtras));var Diferencia = FechaEntonces.getTime() - FechaAhora.getTime();Diferencia = Math.floor(Diferencia / (1000 * 60 * 60 * 24));if(Diferencia < 0) strOutput = "";if(Diferencia == 0) strOutput = MensajeDiaD;if(Diferencia > 0) strOutput = FraseAnterior + Diferencia + FrasePosterior;function CreaFecha(mes, dia, year){ var strFormateada; var Meses = new Array(12); Meses[0] = "January"; Meses[1] = "February"; Meses[2] = "March"; Meses[3] = "April"; Meses[4] = "May"; Meses[5] = "June"; Meses[6] = "July"; Meses[7] = "August"; Meses[8] = "September"; Meses[9] = "Octuber"; Meses[10] = "November"; Meses[11] = "December"; strFormateada = Meses[mes] + ", " + dia + " " + year; return strFormateada;}// --></script><script> </script></span></center></p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rafalet>R afalet</A>* fecha: 26/1/05 12:34

Pfff, esto no me está gustando nada...

Que la Fuerza os acompañe.<hr /><center>

</p></center><span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><font size="1">Enlaces y fechas a próximos estrenos</font><font size="1"> (by woody y el menda)</font></center> <span style="color:white;">ñ</span><center><span style="font-family:verdana; font-size:x-small;"><script language = "javascript" type="text/javascript">var DiaCuentaAtras = 19;var MesCuentaAtras = 5; var AnhoCuentaAtras = 2005;var MensajeDiaD = "La venganza de los Sith ya en cines";var FraseAnterior = "Quedan ";var FrasePosterior = " dias para La venganza de los Sith"; var strOutput;DiaCuentaAtras++;MesCuentaAtras--;var FechaAhora = new Date();var FechaEntonces = new Date(CreaFecha(MesCuentaAtras, DiaCuentaAtras, AnhoCuentaAtras));var Diferencia = FechaEntonces.getTime() - FechaAhora.getTime();Diferencia = Math.floor(Diferencia / (1000 * 60 * 60 * 24));if(Diferencia < 0) strOutput = "";if(Diferencia == 0) strOutput = MensajeDiaD;if(Diferencia > 0) strOutput = FraseAnterior + Diferencia + FrasePosterior;function CreaFecha(mes, dia, year){ var strFormateada; var Meses = new Array(12); Meses[0] = "January"; Meses[1] = "February"; Meses[2] = "March"; Meses[3] = "April"; Meses[4] = "May"; Meses[5] = "June"; Meses[6] = "July"; Meses[7] = "August"; Meses[8] = "September"; Meses[9] = "Octuber"; Meses[10] = "November"; Meses[11] = "December"; strFormateada = Meses[mes] + ", " + dia + " " + year; return strFormateada;}// --></script><script> </script></span></center></p>

MOLA!!!!


Y JAR JAR CON SABLE L�SER!


la-ruina-de-la-familia.blogspot.com

</p>

A mi todo esto que estoy leyendo de Qui-Gon me parece cojonudo. Sólo espero q sea cierto y no sólo falsos spoilers. Que sea verdaaad <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/sweatdrop.gif ALT=":sudor">

Por cierto, segun la web www.jwfan.net las sesiones de grabación de la banda sonora de La Venganza de los Sith comenzará la próxima semana en los estudios Abbey Road de Londres.

John Williams y la London Symphony Orchestra grabarán alrededor de dos semanas, e incluirá varias sesiones con la London Voices.

Las sesiones corales están fechadas para el 7 y 11 de Febrero. La web añade q esperan postear varios reportes de estas grabaciones pq uno de sus lectores participa en el coro.

<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/smart.gif ALT=":alloro">

¿Qué esperais de esta banda sonora?

Si musicalmente, tb es un puente entre ambas trilogías, puede esperarse q contenga:

Duel of the Fates, el tema de amor de Ep 2, la marcha imperial, el tema de el Emperador y el tema de Luke y Leia.

Pero ¿que quedará de nuevo material? Quizás un tema para Grievous? Kashyyyk y los wookies?

Después de oir Harry Potter y el Prisonero de Azkaban y comprobar en la excelente forma en q se encuentra Williams, yo espero mucho de Ep III.

Veremos...






</p>

Queridos padawan, ha llegado el momento de estar más unidos que nunca con nuestro maestro Lucas y apoyar todo lo que diga, piense, escriba o dirija. Ha llegado el momento de ser UNO con la fuerza. No subestiméis el poder del lado oscuro, pero tampoco el del maestro de maestros.

"Fuerte soy por la Fuerza...pero no tanto"</p>

Joder, me resulta dificil el creer que semejante delicatesen galáctica haya salido de la cabeza del Lucas del siglo XXI. <img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/laleche.gif ALT=":laleche"> en un pequeño diálogo ha fusionado dos trilogías de golpe separadas por mas de 20 años, dándole un nuevo punto de vista a todo, por fin "Jorguito" ha desarrollado bien sus personajes creando un arco en Obi-Wan y Yoda una evolución que les hace mucho mas interesantes, el hecho de aprender de sus errores los convierten en mucho mas heroes de lo que ya eran. El ep3 es oscuro, el mal gana, pero a uno le queda una sensación de que a largo plazo las cosas mejoran.
Muy valiente George, muy valiente!.
Lo dicho...alucinante.<img src=https://www.mundodvd.com/forum/emoticons/palmas.gif ALT=":palmas">

Cierto es que todavía quedan flecos por unir, que aun no han salido, pero ya son secundarios. Lo principal era esto junto con el paso de Anakin al lado oscuro y creo que la cosa va por muy muy buen camino. Sigo tocando madera.
Los spoilers vienen de gente muy fiable por lo que de momento los hacen creibles, espero que lo sean hasta el estreno de la peli.

SalU2.

</p>Editado por: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/bmundodvd43132.showUserPublicProfile?gid=runciterr c>Runciter RC</A> fecha: 26/1/05 16:20